[Act and React] Being good at football is not an act of Provocation !?!?!?

[rondwisan]

Semalem sempet tukar pikiran singkat ama bro @derry7cantona mengenai insiden pelemparan koin oleh fans City yg mengenai center_back United, Rio Ferdinand

Yah bisa dibilang kedua belah pihak ada salahnya sih, sang pelaku pelemparan emang jelas-jelas salah dengan tindakannya yg tidak bisa menahan diri tersebut, but coba deh kita bayangin klo kita yang ada di posisi doi

Jangankan yg di sono, di bbrp venue nonbar aja ada yang sempet panas2an
Atmosfir derby yg kental sejak sebelum match (bahkan match yg dulu2 juga masih ngaruh khan), situasi pertandingan dengan 'cerita' yg dramatis di lapangan hijau, sangat2 'membangkitkan' emosi semua yg terlibat di situ

Kira2 insiden pelemparan itu akan terjadi gk ya, klo Rio larinya ke van Persie dan 'manjat2' seperti biasanya, nggak malah lari_ke arah suporter lawan dengan menunjuk2kan jerseynya

Bahkan untuk kasus seperti ini, FA udah pernah menghukum beberapa pemain yg dianggap melakukan selebrasi terlalu berlebihan (baca: provokatif), Oom Gary Nev, Adebayor, sapa lagi ya

Di sisi pemain, Oom Giggs sih bilang, emang dalam kondisi seperti itu, kadang2 kita (pemain) akan spontam melakukan hal tsb, yah klo itu aksi dari pemain, tinggal liat deh reaksi penonton (lawan) gimana, bisa kalem-kalem aja atau bahkan sebaliknya ....

Nah menurut temen2 di sini gimana kepriben ....

Nyok share pendapatnya .......

[rondwisan]

Being good at football is not an act of provocation
DailyMail, Martin Samue - 23:57 GMT, 11 December 2012


⁠Provoked, much: Gary Neville famously celebrated late United winner in front of Liverpool fans

Say you could win a thousand pounds, right here, right now, and all you had to do was hit a bloke on the nose with a 2p coin from 20 yards.

Chances are, you couldn’t do it. It is quite hard to throw a 2p with any accuracy. It isn’t a cricket ball. Copper is quite light, but the surface area of the coin relatively large, meaning there is resistance and wind factor, plus your target is moving.

All things considered, if your financial well-being depended on a tuppenny vice you would end the day as poor as you started it.

So, there was in all likelihood significantly more to Rio Ferdinand’s injury, struck by a missile thrown by a member of the crowd in the Manchester derby, than mere dumb luck. The law of averages would have been at work, too.

For if the same prize was up for grabs but you could have a hundred shies with that 2p piece, well, the balance of probability would produce a different set of figures.

And looking at the footage from behind one goal on Sunday, Ferdinand would not have needed to dodge a single coin after Robin van Persie scored Manchester United’s winning goal, but a whole monetary shower.

At one stage in the second half, Wayne Rooney goes to take a corner from the left. Clearly visible is a hail of tiny missiles as he stands, back to the fans, ready to restart the play. And it is this bit of footage that kills, dead, the idea that player provocation played any part in the events of Sunday.

Rooney wasn’t taunting the home fans, he didn’t even turn to them. Met with the standard sea of angry, contorted faces as he went to take his kick, he merely rounded to face the game and got on with his job. So there was no excuse, no mitigation beyond hatred and jealousy.

A section of modern football supporters do not need a trigger to demonstrate their brutal irresponsibility. And celebrating an emotional late goal isn’t a trigger anyway.

A caller to the BBC’s 606 phone-in show on Sunday attempted to shift the blame for the events at the Etihad Stadium on to Manchester United’s players, for the way they responded to victory.

Incredibly, he was indulged by Alan Green, who allowed him his platform unchallenged, and even supplied a supporting anecdote.

He recalled the way Gary Neville once ran the length of the pitch at Old Trafford away from his team-mates, to celebrate a late winner, from Ferdinand, in front of Liverpool’s fans in the away end. Green was appalled by this. He painted a very moralistic portrait of how he would react, if he was ever in Neville’s position.

Which, of course, he won’t be. None of us will. For what Green neglected to mention in his recounting of the incident, was the song the Liverpool supporters had been singing about Neville for much of that match, to the tune of London Bridge Is Falling Down, implying that he enjoyed a sexual relationship with his mother.

We can’t print it here and this is a pity, as to appreciate the full horror, one really needs to spell it out.

Those with vivid imaginations and strong stomachs may wish to deduce more from the fact the final word rhymes with glitter. Now we’re getting there.

So Green, and others, can pontificate and judge, but until they have had several thousand people inserting their name where Neville’s is, they have no clue how they would react to an event as vindicating and cathartic as a last-minute winning goal.

If thousands of people were insulting you and, mid-sentence, an event happened that silenced those voices and caused them great upset, might you not revel in it, just a little?

And might you not, as Neville did, jump high in the air in pure elation and run towards the tormentors, gripping your Manchester United shirt and holding its badge out in defiance, while emitting a roar of pure rage?

In John Carpenter’s film Escape From New York, a kidnapped President played by Donald Pleasence finally gets his revenge on the preening gangland overlord who captured and tortured him (see below). As he guns him down, he screams in mockery and vengeance the words he was made to recite under duress: ‘Aay, number one! You’re the Duke, you’re the Duke! You’re ‘A’ Number 1.’

Carpenter wanted to show the savage inside every man. That goal against Liverpool brought out the darker side of Neville. Pushed to his limit, he reacted. Yet players did not start this war.

Being good at football is not in itself an act of provocation. Nor is scoring a goal and celebrating it.

Some of us would like to see more smiles and less snarls when this happens, because Sir Alex Ferguson gets easily as much grief as his players but always reacts to a Manchester United goal with untrammelled glee, but as long as no scorer deliberately instigates a riot, then all’s fair.

On Sunday, United celebrated in front of their own fans, who happened to be adjacent to a Manchester City section. There was nothing provocative in what they did, unless winning a contentious derby match late is now reclassified as incitement.

Maybe if the scores are tied, or close, with* 10 minutes to spare, the referee should blow early to prevent anybody getting overwrought.

The reaction of Phil Jones has been mentioned by some City supporters, and it is true the defender did run the length of the pitch to join the celebrations, looking at the home fans and gesturing for them to now be quiet; but a couple of observations.

First, Jones was deep on the right, and United’s little party took place high on the left. So the idea that Ferdinand was hit by a coin because of something Jones was invisibly doing on the other side of the field is preposterous.

Second, Jones had spent the bulk of the match, 85 minutes, on the substitutes’ bench where, one imagines, he had heard and felt the full force of hatred from the home support. Might this be why he was a little more caught up in the moment than usual?

Nobody goes to Paddy Crerand for the impartial take on United, but his outrage during a radio interview when confronted with a lot of mealy-mouthed questions that appeared to place the blame on the visiting players was understandable.

Yet this is not about United and City or United and Liverpool. This is not about any individual club at all. Only a fool believes that what happened on Sunday is not repeated, in varying degrees of intensity, around the country each weekend.

This is about players and fans. It was United under attack this week, it could be City on the receiving end in the return fixture later this season.

(When Ferguson recalled the venom recently directed at his players in the derby and at Chelsea, he conveniently forgot that a City player had been hit by an object thrown at Old Trafford in 2009.)

And what is the crime these young men have committed? They’re good at football. They can put the ball in the net. They achieve the point of the game. They possess the dedication, the discipline, the work ethic and talent, to stand on the pitch and perform.

And when they do, apparently, their skill is too provocative for some tastes. What a perverse little society we have become.

[goodfron]

tapi sebenernya supporter mau menang sendiri sih... seperti kita-kita ini, kerjaannya memprovokasi tp giliran diprovokasi reaksinya ngawur

[theater of dream]

- Kalo gw di posisi Rio secara gol nya krusial gw bakal melakuin hal yang sama ( selebrasi di depan pendukung lawan, apalagi dapat perlakuan yang ngga mengenakan sepanjang laga )

- Kalo gw di posisi supporter Mancity juga bakal bertindak yang sama ( bertindak se-ekstrim mungkin ketika ada pemain lawan yang coba provokasi apalagi kondisi nya sangat krusial di penghujung laga )

Bukan maksud membenarkan sih, tapi sepakbola memang udah sangat identik dengan Drama, intrik, kekerasan dan hal2 yang membuat olah raga no 1 di dunia ini semakin menarik buat ditonton, selama tidak melebihi konteks sepakbola itu sendiri yaitu adu skill dan strategy di tengah lapangan

[eMJi_197]

kata om giggs sih fans United dan fans city [garis keras ] duduknya bersebelahan
dan memang itu terlihat jelas dgn banyaknya steward yg membatasi mereka
fans tuan rumah saja yg emosian karena kalah sakit hati

[GL zone]

Selebrasi Rio itu cuma luapan emosi doang
sempet ungul 2 gol, disamain jadi 2-2 dan akhirnya unggul 3-2 pasti kebayang dong reaksi pemain gimna

kita yg nonton di sini aja sampe loncat2, apalagi para pemain united -khususnya Rio- disana

Dari posisi penonton itu jg menurut gw masih dibilang wajar
jgnkan di inggris, di indonesia aja masih suka ada yg maen lempar2an.. lebih ekstrem malah

Setuju sama TOD, sepakbola udah identik dengan drama. jadi kita nikmatin aja semuanya

[rondwisan]

Hihihii ..., iya juga ya ...
Kita aja sering klo pas team yg kita dukung ngegolin, langsung tereak2 or joget2 di depan fans lawan terutama untuk match2 krusial ....

[[skywalker]]

Eh mau nanya, selebrasinya Rio itu emang di depan fans City ya? Kalo dari video fan cam yg ngerekam reaksi fans away United pas gol ketiga Van Persie, kok sepertinya selebrasi Rio itu di depan fans United ya.. dan yang ngelempar dia koin itu agak jauh dari tribun deket corner? Mohon koreksinya klo saya salah liat

Nah klo soal provokasi ky gt sih, ya makin parah provokasinya pasti makin besar reaksinya. Apalagi kalo contoh kasusnya City vs MU kemaren, derby yg panas karena akumulasi aksi di lapangan plus kejadian beberapa tahun belakangan yg masih dibawa2..

Klo kita liat dari sisi pemain, harusnya itu yg ngebedain antara pemain profesional dan amatir. Pemain profesional wajib berkepala dingin apapun provokasi dari suporter. Nah, sebaliknya si suporter ini jg ikut 'diikat' oleh peraturan dan sanksi, supaya mereka gak bisa meprovoke seenak udel (baca:rasis). Dalam koridor seperti ini, harusnya bisa tercapai tuh atmosfer pertandingan yang seru (dan kadang panas) tanpa melewati batas-batas yang ada. Apalagi di luar sana yg namanya sanksi dan aturan itu sangat ditegakkan dan dibantu oleh sistem dan teknologi yang sophisticated..

Makanya, fans disana silakan aja klo mau nyerbu ke lapangan.. tp inget, resikonya ya bisa aja larangan seumur idup ke stadion. Ato klub kena denda yg jumlahnya besar..

just my 2 cents

[rondwisan]

Soal provokasi memprovokasi, sebenernya ini bisa dijadikan 'strategi' juga oleh pemain untuk memancing emosi lawan, sehingga maennya gk focus ..., bahkan lebih parah kena red card misalnya ...
Jadi gk cuman pemain ke penonton ...
Inget kasus tandukan Zidane ke Materazi

[unai cantona]

yap soal provokasi itu wajar disepakbola tinggal siapa yg ngak tahan di provokasi siap2 kena hukuman

Originally Posted by rondwisan

Hihihii ..., iya juga ya ...
Kita aja sering klo pas team yg kita dukung ngegolin, langsung tereak2 or joget2 di depan fans lawan terutama untuk match2 krusial ....

wah pengen bangat opa kaya gitu
sayangnya UIBJM ngak pernah nonbar bareng fans lain
(meraka diundang ngak mau datang...kita yang minta diundang mereka juga ngak mau)