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Old 11-02-2014, 06:08 PM   #1
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Default Criticism Moyes Strategy

Ada artikel menarik dari salah satu petinggi four- four two yang ane rasa menarik untuk jadi pembuka thread ini (ditulis bulan januari kemarin namun sangat menggambarkan kondisi United saat ini):

How David Moyes made Manchester United one-dimensional

David Moyes arrived at Old Trafford as the man who was supposed to provide continuity following the reign of Sir Alex Ferguson. A Caledonian compatriot cut from the same cloth, so the narrative went: a safe pair of hands to maintain what Ferguson had built, rather than a radical looking to change a successful club.

Yet just six months since Moyes officially arrived, Manchester United look a shadow of their former selves. Pedestrian in attack, porous in defence and often vacant in spirit, they have been described as the worst reigning champions in Premier League history.

At first glance, there doesn’t seem to be too much different in the team’s set-up. Although Ferguson may protest that he rarely played a true 4-4-2, a variant on this oft-maligned system was, and still is, the default formation. Similarly, United still tend to attack down the wings, as they did under Fergie from Ralph Milne onwards – and as at Everton, Moyes has continued to encourage his full-backs to join in on the overlap, sometimes at risk to their defensive duties.

Never mind the quality, feed the width

There’s been plenty of criticism rained down upon United’s wingers this season but Antonio Valencia, Nani and Ashley Young rarely looked like world-beaters on the way to securing the club’s 20th league title. The problem is that Moyes’ style of football has made wing play not just an option, but United’s dominant method of attack.

According to WhoScored.com, last season United averaged 28% of their time in the central zone of the pitch (as opposed to the wings), coming out eighth in the league for the proportion of their play that went through the middle. So far this season they’ve spent only 25% of their time in central areas – the lowest percentage in the Premier League. Although such margins may seem insignificant to some, the teams who were bottom of the pile for the same stat in 2012/13 were the struggling duo of Reading and Sunderland with 25% and 24% of their play taking place through the middle, respectively.

Nobody would expect United to attack constantly down the middle. Besides their historic love of wing play, they have a notable lack of world-class players in central midfield, either a regular goal threat through the middle or a dynamic, box-to-box presence able to punch through the melee and make things happen. Tom Cleverley is no Bryan Robson, Roy Keane or even a Darren Fletcher. He also isn’t Paul Scholes.

Of course, goals have been scored and chances created from the middle this season, usually by the occasional excellence of individuals, but as a team Moyes’s men seem single-mindedly one-dimensional in their plans: a pass to the flanks, a panicked cross into the box.



This lack of a genuine world-class central midfielder is a longstanding problem, but managers are supposed to maximise the resources available and Ferguson managed to find a way round it – almost literally. His United at least flirted with the pretence that something dangerous could come by attacking within the width of the penalty area.

Attempted short-passing interplay in and around an opponent’s box and through the channels, or some patient time on the ball – especially at Michael Carrick’s feet – may not always have penetrated, but it certainly drew markers in. Just as a team sitting deep can coax the other side forward, creating space behind them to attack, United’s willingness to be patient in possession or attempt to spring through the middle with a clever bit of play, however incompetent, offered just enough wiggle room out wide.

Predictable is defendable

As well as facing a fear factor that now seems to have gone, opponents of Ferguson’s teams had to defend much more diligently across the full width of the pitch. After all, though his individual midfielders may not have been the continent’s finest, they still had enough quality to score and create when given room, and so had to be closed down.

Consider the last two visits of West Brom. In last season’s 2-0 win, the hosts’ highest passing combinations came from Nemanja Vidic to Chris Smalling at the back, Valencia to Danny Welbeck up front and some back-and-forth between midfielders Carrick and Cleverley and full-backs Patrice Evra and Rafael.

By the same fixture this season, there had been a clear shift in intent. The dominant combinations became Jonny Evans to Carrick followed by Carrick to Nani, with two of the other top five also including Carrick as a recipient. While the England midfielder has long been the club’s main passing hub, as United lost 2-1 to the Baggies at home this season, his role had been boiled down to being a conveyor belt for wide balls.

Without much of an alternative, however flawed, opponents are able to dig in, hold their shape and brace from the next predictable wave of speculative crosses, rushed in due to the lack of space and time and lost element of surprise.

It may be a stylistic tweak, but the main problem is that it’s not working. True, United’s average number of crosses has gone up from 25 per match to 27 – but that’s an unimpressive uptake considering the amount of time they’re spending in wide areas. Predictable teams are easier to defend against.



It’s not enough to simply write off Ferguson’s successes with a similar group of players as the effect of a true great squeezing every last drop of performance from his personnel. There are lessons to be learned in just how he went about mining even the most deficient part of his squad for that extra edge of percentage.

While Moyes undoubtedly needs time, not to mention major investment to remove the weaknesses in United’s squad, he must also look closer at how ideas similar to his own were made to work with raw materials available to him. At present it appears that he has overlooked one of the subtlest yet surprisingly important facets of Ferguson’s glorious reign.

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http://www.thefalsenine.co.uk/2014/01/16/david-moyes-made-manchester-united-one-dimensional/
Juga postingan ini

[SPOILER]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shi no Gekai View Post
Fulham manager Rene Meulensteen has described David Moyes' tactics as "straightforward" and "easy" to defend against.

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/282095.html

tu rene aja ampe ngomong gitu..udah ketebak dari awal
Sudah berkali- kali kita menonton pertandingan Manchester United musim ini yang menyajikan tontonan hampir sama di setiap match yakni serangan selalu dimulai dari sayap, kebobolan dari serangan balik atau set piece.

Bulan November lalu, iya November tahun lalu Zudo posting artikel:

Quote:
Tweak His Tactics to Allow Wingers to Thrive


Much has been made of the new manager's focus on playing through the full-backs on the overlap, with his preference for players on the left wing especially to tuck in and cut inside rather than stretch the play.

Such an approach looks as though it should be compatible with United's traditional preference for wing play, attacking football and flair so long as Moyes finds the right balance to elevate his system above mere functionality.

Though he is still far from convincing in the role, Shinji Kagawa looks to be the ideal player to play on the left in the Steven Pienaar role if we are to revert to Everton's former tactics as a reference point.

Patrice Evra, too, is the perfect wing-back to streak forward down the left flank, although he must soon be replaced with a fitting successor—see slide one—while Rafael, when fit, has shown a similar aptitude down the right.

The right wing looks set to be the last bastion of the traditional wide-man at United, with Antonio Valencia, Nani and Zaha all excellent options to add pace and width to help create space elsewhere in the forward line.

Januzaj is also an option on the left, but he has so far shown himself to be happy to roam into the channels as well as to the byline, allowing Moyes' full-back plan to take effect even with him on the flanks.

Ferguson himself rarely played with two out-and-out wingers, and the recent shift in how the team is set up has merely formalised ideas that already existed at the club into a more rigid structure.

While no one would want the manager of United to be precious, he must ensure that the club's stylistic ideals sit at the heart of his tactical plans as they evolve from serviceable to spectacular.

Code:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1855066-manchester-united-how-david-moyes-can-the-update-and-defend-the-united-way
Artinya dari tahun lalu diawal rezim Moyes, taktik United hampir tidak pernah berubah banyak. Hingga hari ini rezim Moyes tidak pernah sekalipun mencetak gol skema counter attack dan sangat rentam kebobolan di 15 menit terakhir pertandingan, 19.5%. Beberapa user forum ini bahkan ane juga sepakat Moyes miskin taktik, namun apakah hal itu benar?

Oleh karena itu mari kita sama- sama bicarakan David Moyes namun BUKAN soal kapan ia OUT namun kebijakan taktiknya termasuk pergantian pemain, defence, offence, formasi dsb.
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Old 11-02-2014, 06:54 PM   #2
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Default Re: Criticism Moyes Strategy

[video]



Debut Fellaini saat menggantikan Anderson, skema serangan juga masih mengandalkan serangan dari sayap tapi justru 2 gol tercipta dari bola mati, penalty & freekick.

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Skema crossing berhasil jika berhadapan dengan tim luar Inggris (jika mereka belum nonton match United), Leverkusen 0 vs 5 MUFC.

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Saat kalah dari City, selain karena 2 gol awal Valencia lengah dalam menjaga pemain City, coba lihat skema serangan City di match ini, 3 gol dari skema counter attack & set piece dari kecepatan winger. Wait, United kalah dari skema andalan David Moyes.

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Saat menang melawan Arsenal, pertahanan justru yang menentukan. Meredam Ozil & Cazorla dengan menempatkan Jones ditengah adalah sebuah strategi yang bagus.

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Saat menang dari Villa 0-3, skema counter dari sayap berhasil 2 gol Welbeck tercipta melalui usaha Rafael (Roo) & Valencia. Kemudian ada sedikit improvisasi dengan umpan terobosan.

---------------



saat kalah dari Chelsea lagi dan lagi lemah dalam menghadapi skema counter attack lawan plus lemah dalam mengantisipasi corner kick lawan.

----------------------

Masih banyak video lain yang belum dapat ane pindahkan kesini, namun baca dari berbagai sumber & lihat beberapa video, musim ini United (Moyes) terlalu mengandalkan skema serangan dari sayap, dimana sayap kita musim ini kecuali Januzaj sedang pada masa stuck & menurun. Sampai ada yang bilang kalau Moyes mempertahankan skema seperti ini, ia butuh David Beckham. Lanjutttttt
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Old 11-02-2014, 07:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Criticism Moyes Strategy

Code:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10629343/Manchester-Uniteds-Conference-style-game-leaves-players-at-a-loss-to-explain-poor-recent-performances.html
Manchester United's 'Conference-style' game leaves players at a loss to explain poor recent performances
Fulham defender Dan Burn voices surprise at United tactics while Michael Carrick talks of 'setback after setback'.

Manchester United have been accused of deploying Conference-style football against Fulham during the 2-2 draw at Old Trafford that forced midfielder Michael Carrick to claim the club are suffering “setback after setback”.

With defender Phil Jones waiting to discover whether he faces a lengthy spell on the sidelines because of a hip injury suffered in training last week, United go into Wednesday’s Premier League clash with Arsenal at the Emirates lurching into crisis having fallen nine points adrift of Champions League qualification.

Out of both domestic cups and with the Champions League now offering United their only hope of a trophy this season, manager David Moyes will take his squad to Dubai following the Arsenal game for a training break aimed at re-energising his players for a late-season assault on the top four.

But with United having failed to defeat Fulham despite delivering 81 crosses into the penalty area on Sunday, Moyes’s tactical approach, dismissed as “straightforward” and amounting to no more than “get it wide, get it in”, by Fulham manager René Meulensteen, has now been derided as similar to the football played in the Conference.

“I was just saying to the lads that I’ve never headed that many balls since the Conference,” said Fulham defender Dan Burn, who played at that level with Darlington.



Yesssssss......United main seperti tim converence
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Old 11-02-2014, 07:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Criticism Moyes Strategy

Ane tertarik sama statement om troy soal musim ini MU belum mencetak 1 gol pun melalui CA.

Mungkin karena strategi Moyes adalah Attacking dan bukan Defense.

Beberapa pelatih tim besar biasanya menggunakan taktik attacking saat bermain di kandang atau saat melawan tim besar. Dan kemudian cenderung memilih strategi semi defense dan semi attack saat menghadapi tim besar lainnya di tandang. Beberapa malah cenderung menggunakan taktik defense.

Di pertandingan sistem gugur, pola attack atau defense atau paro2 juga dilakukan pelatih sebagai strategi.

Hal ini yang tidak dilakukan David Moyes. Karena menghadapi tim apapun, di pertandingan apapun, Moyes pasti bermain dengan pola menyerang.

Parahnya, walaupun kedengaran keren pola menyerang, tapi filosofi bermain menyerangnya sangat jadul. Alih2 mengandalkan skill, Moyes lebih cendrung mengandalkan body balance pemain untuk melakukan serangan. Dan seperti juga sudah dibahas pola menyerang yang diusung Moyes mudah kebaca karena minim kreasi.

Yang terjadi akhirnya, karena minim kreasi, walaupun menyerang, jadi minim gol juga. Dan karena polanya menyerang, berarti pertahanan menjadi titik yang sering terlupakan baik oleh pemain tengah, maupun oleh pelatihnya sendiri. Jadi jangan heran klo MU sering kecocoran dengan skema serangan balik. Dan belum berhasil melakukan serangan balik sepanjang musim ini. Pertanyaannya adalah sepanjang di pegang Moyes berapa kali sudah MU melakukan serangan balik?


Dan menurut ane itu sudah menjadi tabiat yang tidak bisa dirubah. Karena skema adalah roh dari seorang manajer.

Sir Alex puluhan tahun melatih, skemanya nyaris tidak berubah. Hanya formasi pemain saja yang dirubah. Tapi soal filosofi bermain, Sir Alex tidak pernah berubah. Bedanya Sir Alex memiliki banyak kreasi untuk mendukung filosofi bermainnya yang jadul dan bikin banyak fans MU kadang suka bilang, kenapa ya Sir Alex maennya gini2 aja.

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Old 11-02-2014, 07:45 PM   #5
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Default Re: Criticism Moyes Strategy

DELAPAN PULUH SATU kali crossing dalam 90 menit, udah hampir SATU kali crossing setiap menitnya ..., di menit sisa gak ada crossing malah kemasukan 2 gol

#akurapopo #wesbiasa
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Old 11-02-2014, 07:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: Criticism Moyes Strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Alsep Ferguson View Post
Code:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10629343/Manchester-Uniteds-Conference-style-game-leaves-players-at-a-loss-to-explain-poor-recent-performances.html


Yesssssss......United main seperti tim converence
Musim ini David Moyes bahkan tidak pernah "merendah" dengan mengakui ia salah, komentar soal 81 crossing itu:

"Tidak, tidak seperti itu. Jika anda hanya melihat statistik dan memikirkan tentang crossing, anda perlu berpikir tentang jumlah operan yang kami lepaskan dan saya tidak berpikir kami tidak hanya keluar dan melepaskan umpan silang terus menerus," David Moyes.

Dipostingan bang Alsep, Dan Burn defender Fulham baru berusia 21 tahun dengan tinggi badan 198cm ditemani John Heitinga, ditemani trio Ryan Tunnicliffe, William Kvist & Sidwell. Rene menumpuk pemain seperti itu dengan tinggi badan yang lumayan lalu Moyes terus mengandalkan skema crossing, lalu terjadilah rekor Fulham make 92 clearences!.

Cek video ini:



Quote:
Originally Posted by J. A. Adji View Post
Ane tertarik sama statement om troy soal musim ini MU belum mencetak 1 gol pun melalui CA.

Mungkin karena strategi Moyes adalah Attacking dan bukan Defense.

Beberapa pelatih tim besar biasanya menggunakan taktik attacking saat bermain di kandang atau saat melawan tim besar. Dan kemudian cenderung memilih strategi semi defense dan semi attack saat menghadapi tim besar lainnya di tandang. Beberapa malah cenderung menggunakan taktik defense.

Di pertandingan sistem gugur, pola attack atau defense atau paro2 juga dilakukan pelatih sebagai strategi.


Hal ini yang tidak dilakukan David Moyes. Karena menghadapi tim apapun, di pertandingan apapun, Moyes pasti bermain dengan pola menyerang.

Parahnya, walaupun kedengaran keren pola menyerang, tapi filosofi bermain menyerangnya sangat jadul. Alih2 mengandalkan skill, Moyes lebih cendrung mengandalkan body balance pemain untuk melakukan serangan. Dan seperti juga sudah dibahas pola menyerang yang diusung Moyes mudah kebaca karena minim kreasi.

Yang terjadi akhirnya, karena minim kreasi, walaupun menyerang, jadi minim gol juga. Dan karena polanya menyerang, berarti pertahanan menjadi titik yang sering terlupakan baik oleh pemain tengah, maupun oleh pelatihnya sendiri. Jadi jangan heran klo MU sering kecocoran dengan skema serangan balik. Dan belum berhasil melakukan serangan balik sepanjang musim ini. Pertanyaannya adalah sepanjang di pegang Moyes berapa kali sudah MU melakukan serangan balik?


Dan menurut ane itu sudah menjadi tabiat yang tidak bisa dirubah. Karena skema adalah roh dari seorang manajer.
CMIIW, Moyes semasa jadi pemain adalah CB. Steve Round (assistant) semasa jadi pemain adalah full back, Phill Neville semasa jadi pemain adalah full back, Jimmy Lumsden semasa jadi pemain adalah midfilder, Ryan Giggs kita tau bersama main bukan sebagai kiper. Artinya? Barisan manager hingga staffnya harusnya paham betul mengenai defence & harusnya lebih kuat dalam defence. Result so far? Kita sudah kebobolan 31x diliga.

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Originally Posted by J. A. Adji View Post


Sir Alex puluhan tahun melatih, skemanya nyaris tidak berubah. Hanya formasi pemain saja yang dirubah. Tapi soal filosofi bermain, Sir Alex tidak pernah berubah. Bedanya Sir Alex memiliki banyak kreasi untuk mendukung filosofi bermainnya yang jadul dan bikin banyak fans MU kadang suka bilang, kenapa ya Sir Alex maennya gini2 aja.

Pernah ane diskusi dengan bapak- bapak umur hampir 60 tahun, doi nge-fans United dari akhir tahun 70-an, katanya waktu itu ikuti United dari tv hitam putih, koran- radio. Komentar om itu mungkin mewakili kata om Adji mengenai strategi SAF, om itu ngomong dia aja heran dengan bodohnya para manager saingan SAF yang gak bisa baca kebijakan strategi SAF selama puluhan tahun yang hampir mirip dari tahun ketahun. Apa yang kita bisa pelajari dengan strategi Moyes & SAF? SAF 26 tahun agak sulit kebaca strateginya (gak semua yah karena SAF juga pernah kalah), Moyes 9 bulan strateginya gampang kebaca.

CMIIW ini yang terakhir berdasarkan analisis abal- abal dari anak kampung.
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Old 11-02-2014, 07:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: Criticism Moyes Strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by rondwisan View Post
DELAPAN PULUH SATU kali crossing dalam 90 menit, udah hampir SATU kali crossing setiap menitnya ..., di menit sisa gak ada crossing malah kemasukan 2 gol

#akurapopo #wesbiasa
81 crossing! exclude 10 corner kick. Kalau ditambah artinya ada 91x crossing ke kotak penalty lawan, hasilnya hanya 2 yang berhasil dieksekusi jadi gol walau bukan direct crossing harus "mantul" dulu sebelum ke kaki RvP & Kaki Carrick. Assist Mata saja berbau tendangan ke arah gawang yang miring yang kebetulan disana ada RvP.
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Old 11-02-2014, 08:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: Criticism Moyes Strategy

Ane sih sebetulnya ga terlalu keberatan seandainya moyes tetap pake pola serangan sayap,,tp ya itu..yg udah dibahas di trit lain,,sayapnya musti yg paling yahud crossingnya ,,dan strikernya musti yg jago heading.....

Lah musim ini siapa winger terbaik kita??siapa goal poacher terbaik kita?

Silakan dijawab sendiri
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Old 11-02-2014, 08:35 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by J. A. Adji View Post
Sir Alex puluhan tahun melatih, skemanya nyaris tidak berubah. Hanya formasi pemain saja yang dirubah. Tapi soal filosofi bermain, Sir Alex tidak pernah berubah. Bedanya Sir Alex memiliki banyak kreasi untuk mendukung filosofi bermainnya yang jadul dan bikin banyak fans MU kadang suka bilang, kenapa ya Sir Alex maennya gini2 aja.

Wuik... jadi 26 tahun maennya seperti itu aja! Jangan2 Moyes "korban" Fergie. Apakah mudah merubah gaya maen 26 tahun dalam waktu 9 bulan? Beda pelatih beda gaya maen. Semirip2nya tetep aja beda. Jadi berpikir klo proses perubahannya nggak lancar. Berubah dari gaya Fergie ke Moyes 1/2 aja. Jadi nggak Fergie banget tapi ya nggak Moyes banget.

Aku nggak hafal pemaen Everton sapa aja. Hanya klo aku ingat ada Piennar, Mirallas, Osman, pemaen yang bukan tipikal winger tradisional. Jadi apakah gaya maen Everton dulu = United sekarang? Khususnya lini tengah karena klo FB Everton punya 2 FB bagus, jadi pasti sering overlap. Tapi apakah lini tengahnya sama?

Jadi penasaran.. jadi berpikir proses transisi Moyes nggak lancar. Salah satunya bisa jadi gara2 26 tahun Fergie.
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Old 11-02-2014, 09:49 PM   #10
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Default Re: Criticism Moyes Strategy

Baru sempet browsing2 cari referensi taktik Moyes. Baru dapet salah satu yang panjang lebar mbahas taktik Moyes di Everton. Tapi masalahnya nggak begitu paham arti artikelnya

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...united-everton

www.newstalk.ie/mobile/index.php?id=9020

Artikelnya ditulis Mei 2013. Jadi blom di United. Apakah kira2 gaya maen United seperti di atas?

Last edited by fredrian.seven; 11-02-2014 at 10:09 PM..
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